Dress To Feel Your Best With Jennifer Mackey-Mary

Hey guys. Welcome back to another week of the girl Means Business podcast. This is episode 43 and continuing our healthy habits series we are chatting today with Jennifer from your everyday style. She is a wardrobe stylist on a mission to make style simple for women at every stage. And today we are having an honest amazing conversation about the importance of taking care of yourself and making sure that you not only feel your best but that you look your best. And I have to say this is one of my favorite interviews to date because I went into this having really no idea what to expect from the conversation with a stylist fashion stylist and how it relates to business.


But when we started talking about how important it is to dressed to not initially impress but to feel really good about yourself it opened up a world of conversation that we just drove into. And I touch a little bit about this in the interview but this really resonated with me because we talked a lot about going from working a 9 to 5 job where you're required to dress up and wear nice clothes and pantsuits or dresses or heels or whatever it might be depending on your job to working for yourself and working from home and you are now living off of yoga pants and T-shirts and how shoes or comfortable clothes.


And so finding that middle ground of how to work from home run your own business and still look good and feel good about yourself is a fine line. I think we really kind of touch a lot on this interview and I say from my own experience after this interview I have been really paying attention to what I wear on a daily basis. I've been making a better effort to find clothing that makes me feel good that's comfortable that I will actually get up and put on every day. And it does make a huge difference in how I feel every single day.


So I'm going to go ahead and let Jennifer get started on the interview because she says it way better than I do. But here is my interview with Jennifer from your everyday style.


Hi Jennifer. Welcome to the girl means business podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. How are you. I'm good. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah I am so excited to chat with you today. So tell us you who you are. Tell us about your story. Kind of how you got into what you're doing now.


So I have a business called Everyday style and I'm actually an accidental wardrobe stylist. Growing up this was never my passion. This is not what I did. I didn't have dreams of growing up to just style women all over the world but I ended up I used to work in the restaurant industry training opening new restaurants training new employees all over the country and I needed a job that got me off the road and I was in one place for a while.


So I started working for Chico's back when I was about when the say 25 26. So I was much younger than that she goes demographic but I was in charge of opening new stores training employees there. And the first thing that I learned at Chico's was how to dress the four body types. And I was hooked. I was absolutely hooked because I've always had kind of a difficult body to dress. I like clothes. I like clothes a lot. I like to shop. It was always the thing we did growing up but a lot of the clothes that I love didn't love me back.


And so it was sort of a frustrating experience. So when I started working at Chico's and I learned the four body tips I learned that it wasn't me. I wasn't bad my body wasn't wrong it was just the pants that I was trying to put on my body and when I learned how to dress my body all of a sudden the love that I do have for clothes it was kind of like a match made in heaven. And when I started working for Chico's we didn't have mirrors in the fitting room and women.


Everyone I talked to was like oh my gosh that would be the most terrible thing ever. But how many times do you go into a fitting room with this armload of stuff and nobody comes to check on you and you just you know nothing works. You just leave empty handed and sad and that never happened because women had to come out to look in the big mirror and was kind of a fun like girlfriend shopping experience for everyone. But we were trained to say OK your body needs a shorter jacket your. Your body needs wider pants a different neckline a longer necklace whatever it was.


And so I really kind of honed my styling ability standing in a mirror at Chico's dressing regular women and I just loved it from there I went to a high end fashion boutique which was a wonderful fashion education but I don't love clothes. I love what closed do for women. I love women who are struggling with their body image. Women who are you know feeling frumpy women who don't know how to dress their post kid body. I love that woman. And in that environment. She just wasn't there. So after that I went to get maternity where I got my woman crying and in a fitting room again.


Right. She was dressing like this alien in our in our body. I love that woman I love using clothes to make her feel great about herself. And then I stayed home with my kids my first daughter. And I learned I'm a terrible stay at home mother. I'm just not cut out for it. So I started selling jewelry at one of those like direct sales party play and kind of things. The only thing I'm more sad than being a stay at home mom is being a direct seller because I would never want to ask people to buy anything I hate that I was terrible.


But when I did have a jewelry show I would teach women how to dress their body with jewelry. Like if your neck is short wear longer earrings if you don't like how short your fingers are wear an oval ring all those little tips. And women would say well can you dress me. Can you come shopping with me. Can you go through my closet and one day it was kind of standing in front this group of women I'm like wait that's the business. Like that's the business right they are not begging people to have a show in their living rooms on a Sunday.


Like no I have this skill that I could do. So I started out as Northern Virginia's What Not To Wear. I'm sure lots of women are familiar with that show where the bride your house all the time. Yes. And they make you cry and they throw away your stuff and that's what I used to do minus the crying part. Right. So I would go into a woman's home and I would make her try on literally everything she owned. We would figure out what worked what didn't and what we needed to add to make the perfect wardrobe and then I would take her shopping and I would teach her how to shop.


A lot of women don't know how to shop. We think that it's something that women are just sort of know born knowing how to do. But we're not it's not a skill that a lot of women have. So I did that and my business just took off. I was booked constantly but in a service business use there's a point where you can't clone yourself you can't work anymore you can't charge anymore I mean I felt like I was charging these ridiculous prices which I felt was still a good value for what women were getting.


But I really always want to serve real women. And I was kind of pricing myself out of that. So I thought well what can I do to serve more women to help women get dressed easily. Love the way they look. Save time save money. So I started creating these capsule wardrobe books guides which is a seasonal e-book and it shows women how to put together the perfect wardrobe for the Four Seasons. So right now I'm currently working on winter and it's 34 pieces it shows you how to combine them to make like one hundred.


At last count it was one hundred and eighty four outfits. Wow. Women. Yeah. We give women the shopping links to buy all the pieces like you don't even have to leave your house to know how to put together this perfect mix and match wardrobe. So that's kind of what I do now and now I'm able to serve thousands of women all across the world and not sit in crazy traffic anymore. So yeah that's how I got to where I am now.


That's amazing. I love that story. I love that you were able to kind of have that light bulb moment of like OK I don't need to be doing this for somebody else I can do this as my own business and I love the road down as you were talking about you know. I don't love clothes I love what they do for women. Yes I think that's so powerful because everything you said I resonate with you know I've had two kids and I've gone from being super fit and athletic and running all the time and had being it was my idea of like the best version of me to Mom body who doesn't go to the gym very often and you know when I quit teaching I now live in stretchy pants and comfortable clothes.


And so I know that feeling of walking into a dressing room and there's nobody there except you. And like the 18 year old that helped you bring your clothes on and then she goes I have encountered sets and just feeling defeated you know and I think that it's it's really powerful when somebody can be there to show you what looks good on you and can show you and walk you through that process of you know don't wear this wear this and here's why not just don't. But here's why I think that's really cool that you're doing that for women and that's so powerful.


Well you know Diana Vreeland who is a former Vogue editor once said it's not about the dress. It's about the life you live in the dress that matters. And I hold on to that quote like that is my guiding force I should painted on the wall. But I think that a lot of women and myself included I have two kids I've been through that what I call The Frump slump. We get to a point where we don't have the dress to live the life we want to live. And I have had clients who have skipped their friends weddings.


I have had I had a client call me a couple years ago in December and she was in tears and she got my name from a friend of hers. Her husband was taking her on this weekend trip to New York and she didn't want to go and they were like staying at the Plaza. And like it was the ultimate Christmas time New York trip and she didn't want to go she didn't have any clothes to wear. And when you start pulling away from life because you don't have the pants and then the pants matter right.


If you start pulling away from life because you don't have the dress then it is the dress that matters. So I really want to encourage women to have the clothes you need to live the life you want to live. So when those things do come up you're not like a do I have to go to a holiday party. No you're excited you're excited to go out and see people and you're like Dang I've got a great outfit. I can't wait to show it off. And you're right. I mean customer service is a whole other topic that we could talk about but it is just a wasteland to try and find help in stores these days.


It really is. And women are not women who work in stores they're not trained to know what looks good on some. I mean it's just this is cute. This is cute. OK. We need to get beyond cute and say OK this is good for you and the life you live and the body you have. I mean sure. I mean our stiletto heels cute Yeah I guess but I don't own any because they hurt and I don't go anywhere. Right. Right. So. So we have to get away from oh this is cute and really talk about what is cute for the life you live with the body you have and how you want to present yourself to the world.


And you know I also have I used to get dressed every day and go to work and very very image conscious environments. And now I stay home my husband I both work from home full time. We've moved to a small town like I have no reason to get dressed ever. Yeah but here's what I know there is a mindset shift that happens when you get dressed and look the way you like and you look and you're like I look cute even if you're in a cute sweatshirt and cute yoga pants. There is a mindset shift that happens.


And so many women are robbing themselves of that mindset shift every single day.


That's so true. And I don't think we think about that enough because too many times we are focused on well other things like our children. I know for me a lot of times it's in the morning it's chaos. It's lunches and getting kids dressed and toothbrush and breakfast eaten and all that because of the last person like I've walked out of the house in my house shoes because I literally am like oh yeah I don't have time for me. But when I take the time and I put on makeup and I fix my hair and I actually put on an outfit that I put on dress pants everyday for the first time since I quit my teaching job and I was like I forgot how good these feel and like how good they make my butt look you know things like that I'm like why don't I do this more often.


And I see these other women whom you know when I go out running errands or the day and there's these women who are out and they're fully dressed these cute up there not that they are. Overdone but they've taken the time to put on you know jeans and boots and a cute sweater they've put on makeup and even if their hair's not done it's up in a cute messy barn or whatever they've done with it to make it look presentable but they have a different confidence about them than I do when I walk in in my sweatshirt and yoga pants and tennis shoes because it was just quick and easy.


So I think there's definitely something like the quote you mentioned about you know the life you live in the dress the dress it's That's so true. And I think that I need to remind myself to take that time for me to put in that effort to getting the clothes that fit and then taking the time to wear them because it's so easy to slip out of that habit.


It is it is really easy to slip out of the habit but I will say and I've seen this with so many kinds that I've worked with. I go shopping with them and they want to reinvent themselves right. Like you said you put on dress pants for the first time in ages and you're like wait these aren't the soul crushing uncomfortable pants I thought they were going to be but if the reality is that on a random Tuesday you're not going to put on dress pants. Don't buy the dress pants. So you know I know you can't see everything I'm wearing today but I've got an olive green like half sleeve sweatshirt over a long sleeve t shirt I have on camel leggings and super duper cute sneakers.


This is the life I live right. I live a very very casual life. My sneaker collection now way outpaces my heels by a long shot but I like the way I look. Everywhere I go I think women have to reframe their idea of what dressing well means dressing well does not mean dressing up. It just means having really cute things that you will love for the life you really live. I don't I don't need dress pants ever. I mean my church's casual My job is casual when I do speaking engagements I have a few thing.


I love dresses so I have a few of those I always have a little bit of that in my closet. But the reality is you know if I'm on a Thursday and the only place I'm going is like taking my mom to the doctor I do like to dress up a little bit I like to put myself together but I'm not going for the blouse and the blazer I just make sure that I have really and it goes again. Cute. I have things that make me feel good for the life that I really live.


And instead of just defaulting like I think we have this idea that it's either sheath dresses or sweat pants and there is no gray area. But we live in the age of athleisure. I mean women have never ever ever had it so easy to look so good. Mm hmm. I read and I read in Women's Wear Daily a couple weeks ago that the sneaker market for women is actually outpacing sneaker market for men. And I walked into a DSW note. They always have that front display of like what's cool now.


Right. It was all sneakers for women. So this is a moment like casual comfortable is a moment but it doesn't have to be sloppy and frumpy. It doesn't have to be. It can be super chic super stylish. You know I've just got to pop up from Athleta on Facebook and there was this dress as a call I have to have that. And you know they showed someone like riding a bike in it and I'm like OK. Probably not. But you know.


Because I don't ride a bike. But whatever you know the idea was you can have that look that you want. And and still have that comfort and that utility that you really are going to go for.


Yeah I'm already feeling super inspired to let go d clutter my closet and figure out you know look the mirror kind of what what does work sparks what sparks joy and wear for me. And what do I just need to get rid of because it's just either not doesn't fit right it doesn't make me feel good or whatever. So I want to go back to one thing you said when you're talking about your story and you mentioned the four body types and then once you learned those and you were able to help women sort of dress for what fits their body type.


Can you walk us through really quickly like what are the four body types and maybe some tips for each one.


Absolutely. So on my podcast which is the everyday style school I have episodes 2 through 6 where I talk about body types in detail so I talk about body type basics in episode two and then each body type has its own episode so I'll give you a quick overview but if you really want to die then go check those out and I don't have that linked in the show note so anyone that wants to go listen to those that'll be in today's show notes as well. Perfect. So there are I have a book that has like twelve body types I have one that has 16 I have one that has four eight.


I mean depending on who you're talking to and who you're listening to there are like a million different body types. I just kind of with the basic four because there are so many variations that it would be impossible to cover them all. So for me it is the hourglass which is the same on top and bottom right with waste that is much smaller. So basically your bust matches your hips and you have a well-defined waist then we have the rectangle who is also similarly sized on top and bottom her bust is equal to her hips but she is not well defined through the way she's pretty straight.


There's not much of a curve there. Then we have the pear body type which is bigger on bottom than it is on top. So your best measurement is going to be considerably smaller than your hit measurement and you probably do have a well-defined waist then there is the apple which is bigger on top than on the bottom so the bus measurement is probably the biggest if not the waist measurement is the biggest and the hips are probably pretty relatively proportionally small and narrow. Yeah. And the one thing I can tell women on all of this is first all you need to know your body type.


You need to know what all of those things mean. A lot of women I work with say oh I'm a pair or I'm an apple and I say OK well why are you an apple. Because I my tummy is bigger than it used to be. OK well we're not talking about what you used to be versus now we're talking about the proportion of the hips and the waist and the bus left shoulder measurement. So you've got to accurately know your body type. The second thing I would say is dress first to show off the part you love.


I think women get dressed to hide the parts they don't love. Yeah absolutely. You know we could play that. That could be a race to the bottom of the barrel right. I hate everything about my body I'm not as skinny as I used to be my body changed since I had kids find the thing you like and show that off. Find the thing you like and dress that first then cleverly disguised the thing you don't like. So you know I know a lot of my pear shaped women instead of covering everything up in this huge oversized top and big baggy pants pairs usually love their shoulders and their arms and their neck.


Don't throw a huge giant turtleneck that just shows everything off our glasses even if you're not as small as you used to be. They like their waist. They like that their waists of smaller dress for that first when you're focused on the thing that you like and highlighting that obvious then you do start that kind of self-love. Body love body positivity rather than thinking oh it's all just terrible I'm in a covered up with a giant potato sack and call it a day that has never an effective strategy for anyone to love their body just thrown on oversized stuff and covering everything up.


Nobody has ever front themselves into body positivity into real changes into self-love or to liking the way they look. That's just not how it works. So find the thing you love show that off first.


Oh my gosh that's so good. I hadn't I hadn't heard that said that way before but it makes total sense and I know for me like I do I tend to go first to what do I want to hide you know. And so I'm like OK I don't love my arm so how can I hide my arms or how can I you know hide my mom's stomach and things like that but there are definitely things about me that I I like to show off and I just don't ever think that that second thought to whatever is going to make me feel good.


But right that's Yeah.


That's how women get dressed as we go. OK let's cover up the terrible things first and then let's show off it. But when once you've covered up everything that you don't love as much as you used to for most of us who are in our 30s and 40s. OK a lot of us are going to cover up everything you know. Yeah. I love my legs. I don't love them as much as I did when I was 20. You know I mean they have changed they have. They've carried two kids.


They they they're different. But I still love them. So I wear skirts an awful lot. I wear leggings an awful lot. And then I focus on the part that I wish not even that I wish were different but I cleverly disguise the parts I don't love. But I always focus on that part you love first. It is such it's a simple mindset shift but it will completely change your wardrobe.


  1. I'm think I'm going to like write that on my mirror in the bathroom when I get dressed in the morning from now on. Oh I like that. I mean that's a great reminder. And again I think it just all comes back to to like looking at your clothes a little differently and going OK these pants like I'm more hourglass shaped and I tend to wear things that turn me into like a rectangle because my stomach is bigger than I wanted to but I do have defined ways since I'm like OK what can I do.


What clothes do I already have that I'm not wearing. Because I feel like that it's you know maybe it's too snug in the waist but really it's showing off that definition there. And so do you re-evaluate what I have in my closet that's going to that's exciting.


I love that. And the other thing I want to say about that is that women tend to use clothing as a reward for hitting whatever goal it is. And I will tell you your wardrobe is a much better catalyst for real change than it is a reward. And I can't tell you how many women I've worked with who excuse me have for some reason or another put off working together until they've absolutely had to write is that I've wanted to work with you for a while but now I'm going back to work and I have to.


And so we go and we shop and we get them this this wardrobe and inevitably and this is a whole different subject but women are wearing clothes that are way too big. We have a totally different mind mirror than we have like an actual mirror and we have to stop shopping with the mind mirror so we put them in clothes that actually fit we put them in clothes that highlight the good parts and then three months later let's say we need to shop again. I've lost so much weight that none of these things fit me anymore and they've been struggling like oh I'm going to work with you once I lose the weight once they lose the baby weight we'll work together.


OK great. But again you can't frump yourself into a better body. Right. You don't. It is when you start loving the way you look regardless of your size regardless of if you've still got that mom tummy. Love the way you look and then you start making those changes use your wardrobe as a catalyst for change and whether that is having a different body or achieving what you want in business. You know I tell my business clients all the time. Dress like somebody is paying you to dress like you're going to see a client at Starbucks.


You know when I come down and I usually start work around 430 30 or 5:00 in the morning and I am in my pajamas because I don't want to wake up my husband at that time. But there is a mindset shift again that happens when I go upstairs and I put on even if it's athleisure clothes that make me feel cool and chic and put together and then I come downstairs I'm like Oh I am good at this. Right. So there's there's something about using your wardrobe to reach your goals. Letting that be a part of your team basically how you feel about yourself every single day has a huge impact on everything you do whether it is parenting whether it is you know getting your pre body bag your pre mom body back whether it is reaching your business goals get dressed like a person who's going to crush that that goal well and some things have made me think too about you know a lot to listen to us our business owners and we're working from home.


I'm guilty of this a lot. So I go out to run errands and I get I put on whatever's comfortable or whatever I already have on for the day from that morning. And I just gotten to run errands and a lot of times I don't have makeup on my hair's not really done.


I'm dressed comfortably and I don't feel great about myself and my thought now is everywhere I go is potential for me to meet a client. Yes because I could be in especially with coming from so I shoot boudoir I shoot women who want to feel competent and beautiful and so if I'm talking to somebody that I meet in line at Hobby Lobby and I don't look like I value myself and I don't look like I'm taking care of myself then why would she want to hire me to help her do that. So now that's a mind shift I need to make to and the fact that not only am I dressing myself to make me feel good but I'm dressing myself to represent my business now too and not get it.


Like you said it doesn't mean I have to wear you know business casual don't have to wear a suit and blazer I don't have to wear dress pants every day. But just taking the time to put an effort to make myself feel good reflect in how willing I am to talk to somebody else. One for one.


Yes that's really the thing when you're standing in Hobby Lobby and you feel frumpy and bad about yourself. There is a I don't know ninety nine percent less chance that you're going to strike up a conversation about your business that is based on image. And even if your business isn't based on image you know I am thinking about like all these business coaches out there. If I ran into someone at Starbucks or Hobby Lobby wherever and she was dressed like she just rolled out of bed and she's like I help women achieve their financial goals really put on pants you know.


You actually if you want to show women how to get it all together and how to have it all then you need to be that person. And again we have to get rid of that idea that OK. Now I have to put on heels and a shirt that buttons and a belt. OK. Belts are trendy right now. So go do that. But you don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. I run around all winter long in basically sweater dresses and leggings and everywhere I go people are like you're always put together and I want to laugh and say I'm in pajamas because I'm so crazy.


Yeah right. But it really comes from why not. If you're going to wear sweatshirt and leggings just have cute ones in your closet. Yeah that is it. I mean seriously that's it that's all there is. Yeah. Sure to be difficult.


Yeah no I agree. I completely agree.


And I think to like yeah like there is that sort of mindset of that you have almost two categories like you said you either have the super chic or you have the casual and there is that in between now and we need to like really embrace the fact that you can create your own style. Yeah based on what feels what you feel good. There are no rules necessarily of what you have to wear. To be quote unquote presentable in public like you get to define what your style is. Is handed down.


Yeah. Which I love. And that's part of you know what I tell business on the time like you get to create this business from scratch it's yours to create. And that goes with. Same thing with your style. I mean I and I do branding sessions for other business owners and you know I tell them like they're always asking What should I wear and I'm like wear something that showcases who you are. You know if you are like you were saying if you're not somebody who puts on a pencil skirt and a button down top to go meet a client then don't put that on for your photos.


And so it's about finding you know what is your style. And so my question my next question for you is this. So. A lot of. People listening either are wanting to transition from working a full time 9 to 5 job to running their business or have already done so. And I know for a mean going from the teaching job to what I'm doing now and obviously I taught elementary school so it's a little more casual we weren't expected to dress up every day necessarily but I did I wore dress pants I wore no flats and heels occasionally I would wear nice shirts and then to go from that to being home every day and working from home.


It was a weird transition because I would go in my closet and I would see my work clothes kind of all pushed to the side. And I was living off this very small section of yoga pants and t shirts and you know some a couple of cute things to wear out and then over the last two years my closet has transitioned to now. It's almost all comfortable clothes and not work closed on the dress yourself. And when I do have something to go do I need to dress up. I don't have anything anymore.


So what advice do you have for the woman who is leaving a good corporate job and now is to be working from home but her closet doesn't really match her new lifestyle.


But she also doesn't want to live in pajamas all the time.


Well I think the first thing I want to talk about is you. You made the comment that we have these these two things right this dressy wardrobe and this super casual wardrobe. But the thing is the world has kind of met in the middle. Right. I mean everywhere you go now is fairly casual. There aren't there are very very few jobs now that require suits. And if you know if you're in one of those you just have to wear suits. That's your option. Right. But the world has sort of met in the middle.


And yet our wardrobes haven't. And that is why we never have anything to wear for anywhere we want to go because really how true it is. So what. And one thing my capsule guides do my capsule guides were really designed they were designed for me. But let's face it we all as business owners we design for ourselves we do things for ourselves where our own ideal client. So it was designed for me. This woman who hates feeling frumpy more than anything I hate feeling frumpy and as a mother I hate feeling frumpy.


I believe I owe it to my daughters to show them what self care and self-respect looks like. So I hate feeling frumpy. I also hate being uncomfortable. I just I won't do it. I do not sit here at my desk. There was an article in real simple about working from home and they have all these great ideas of why you should get dressed. They had a 600 dollar pair of loafers in there. No. But they had a 300 dollar pair of wool pants. No no no no no.


So my capsules are really designed for that woman who wants that comfort once that casual polish. And that's what it's really about. It's about you can have jeans and a T-shirt. Why not have. Just being in jeans that make your butt look amazing and make you feel like a million bucks and a super cute graphic tee that shows your personality and then you need to get on a stage somewhere. You throw a pair of booties and a blazer over it. Good. You know you're go into a PTA meeting or running errands.


You throw a cardigan and sneakers on. You're good. There are so many things that do exist in that gray area. We just have to feel more comfortable with that gray area. Yeah. And we have to there's another quote I'm going to share and it's by Tom Ford designer for Gucci. And he said and I'm totally paraphrasing this one about giving up a tiny bit of physical comfort to gain a lot of psychological comfort. Like when you put on those those dress pants. There was a psychological comfort and confidence that comes.


So yes most of the time I do sit at my desk in pants with a real button in his zipper like actual jeans. Could I be more comfortable in sweats probably. But for me that's kind of just a reminder to keep it pulled together a little bit more. Right now I don't wear a super stiff uncomfortable jeans I do. I try and meet in the middle but we have to be OK existing in that gray area and also letting go of what doesn't serve you. So how long have you been out of teaching.


Can I ask this guy on my third year. OK. The things that you were wearing you probably don't want to wear anymore. No when you hit that three to five year mark that stuff is done. You're tired of it. So if there are any really great building blocks or basics pull those out pull those out and work them into the wardrobe that does suit you today and then let everything else go. You're not a lot of women don't want to let things go because they've spent the money on it.


Right. OK. You're not getting it back. I mean it doesn't grow in value sitting in your closet that Ann Taylor sweater set does not grow in value being ignored for 10 years just right. Let it go. Pick the things that that really suit you right now. Make sure you have outfits. I do this exercise with my clients and I say Okay where do you go. Let's look at like a three month calendar where do you go. And mine would include like networking events speaking events church PTA.


Now what do you want to wear for those things. What do you want to wear. And then we kind of map out outfits. Do you have those pieces because if you don't put them in there and then you're not doing down at 9:00 p.m. emergency shopping at Macy's have you done this one. Oh yeah. Like when you're crying and sweating and you are willing to spend anything not to be naked and those pieces never become favorites that you know they're usually uncomfortable. They're just like something to get you through.


I don't I don't believe in that. I think your closet should dress you for like ninety five percent of your life and those outliers that come out. Yeah you can go shopping for those but your your life should be represented in your closet. And that's when you can go in there literally. I could go in there for anything you throw my way and pull out an outfit that I absolutely love. And then I enjoy that thing a whole lot more. So I you know I think it's about finding that gray area figuring out how you want to look for the places you really go making sure you have those pieces and then letting go of everything else that's not working.


Oh my gosh I love the idea of looking at your calendar because that's so true because I will do that all the time. I'll go Oh my gosh I've got a bridal show next month and I want to look presentable. What do I have or I've got a networking event or a women's luncheon that I want to go to and it's last minute and I live out in the middle of nowhere. So for me to make a 9:00 run to a store it's probably going to be a target. So all options are limited and I always end up disappointed with what I get.


That's so true. I love the idea of looking at the calendar like that I'm definitely gonna do that for my own schedule because it's so smart.


One of the questions I used to ask my clients when we were working one on one was look back over the last few months. Was there anywhere you went where you didn't love what you were wearing and the answers are so telling like someone said I wore it like brown pants to a bridal shower and I'm thinking about all these ladies in these dresses at a bridal bridal shower and how frumpy my lady felt in her brown pants. So look back and say What did I not love. What did you not love.


And then look ahead and say What do I have coming up and how do I make that different. I would love to live in a world where we go you know what. What I wear doesn't matter it doesn't matter. But the reality is I think for most women it really does. Yeah we feel better when we'd like the way we look. And again that doesn't mean you have to get dressed up. If you are a jeans and a sweater kind of girl just like jeans and sweaters you love don't buy things that you think you should wear more if you like wearing brown pants to a bridal shower go for it.


You're probably going to feel good in those. But we do. We like things more we have more fun we are more open more confident when we like the way we look. So I just really always want to encourage women to put the things in your closet that are gonna help you like the way you look. Have those go choose those fall backs like if nothing else works for this bridal event. I'm gonna wear this and it's so much easier I talked about this on my podcast last my last episode that it's much easier to find something you want to wear when you already have something you could wear.


It's kind of like it's easier to find a job when you have a job do to find a boyfriend when you have a boyfriend. All that good stuff like if you if you have a backup you'll find stuff for days that you want to wear and if you feel good. If you feel confident at that bridal expo you're going to show yourself best. I was talking to one woman about networking and she said I'm so shy I don't like to be noticed. So all she was I was like grey and black.


It takes a lot to get me off my couch and out at night a lot right. So if I'm going to a networking event at night I want to be noticed. I want that to turn into something like Why would you want to go and fly below the radar. I have no one remember who you are like that's just a waste of gas money and time that I could be spent watching Netflix. Yeah. I'll point that to be remembered. The whole point is to be remembered where things you love.


And I also thank you for your client your listeners who are business owners you can use your wardrobe to connect with your ideal clients a lot faster. Yeah. If I walk into a networking event and I am in my leather leggings then my sneakers and you know a cool sweater. The people who like that look are gonna gravitate toward me. You know if you do branding for people there's a person who's aesthetic matches better with yours. Let your close say something about who you are and find the people who want to work with the person that you are.


Oh my gosh like I'm already so inspired right now. Like just through all this I'm already thinking like OK I'm going to go through my closet I'm going to go do some shopping I'm going to find some jeans that I love because I don't love the jeans that I have I'm not going tell my husband how much I spend because of you.


You know what. Yeah. Husbands usually love me when we talk about cleaning out the closet part. Yes. And then they're a little less of a fan when we talk about that rebuilding partner. Although I will say most husbands that I've come across just really want their wife to feel good about herself. Yeah you know and I've heard so many women like my husband's gonna kill me and then the husband's like no just go do what you need to do right feel good about yourself Yeah or your husband wants you to feel beautiful because when you feel beautiful you're a better wife.


Yeah absolutely. My husband to go put on the good genes. Happy wife happy life. That's right. That's right. So OK I have two more things I'd talk about. One is I've been looking at the sign you have behind you where says if you don't love it in the fitting room you'll never wear it. You have reminds me of.


So I think I was like maybe in college or early 20s it was towards that end of Oprah's TV show. And she did a show she was talking about just how she's lost weight gain weight loss gain weight and how she doesn't always love getting dressed you know she has to look nice on the show and out of the vents. And so I think they did a whole episode on going into her closet and looking at what she owned and all these things. And one of the things that she said that has stuck with me all this time was that her role is when she tries something on it's either love it or hate it.


Yes there is no gray area.


If there is not a heck yes it as a hell no. Exactly. There is the cost of a garment doesn't make anything fit you more flatter you more or make you love it more. You know so when you're put on there. But it's only 20 dollars. OK. But if you don't love it you're never gonna wear it and that's where a waste of 20 dollars 20 dollars you can put towards a more expensive item that you really love. Or another 20 dollars thing that you actually love. Those are out there Jack.


I mean yeah if you don't love it in a fitting room and I know there's some things I was talking to someone the other day who they don't try things on in fitting rooms which is kind of a big no no for me but they don't love things in fitting rooms because of the lighting and they want their own shoes in a bubble. You know all that kind of stuff and I do get that. But a lot of women that I work with and that I talked to are busy moms. And if it was hard for you to get in the store the first time it's going to be harder for you to get back the second time to return it.


Right. So just suck it up let your kids crawl under the door at Target. Mine used to do that all the time. You know just they're in there even times I'm really good at looking at an item and I pick it up I've been dressing women for 20 years knowing how it's going to fit my body knowing if the color is right the neckline all that good stuff but I'll put it on and it's just cut a little bit weird right and which isn't all right in the same place. And I always go.


I'm so glad I tried it on. Yes. Don't bring things home that you don't love. Now this is how we end up with nothing we love in our wardrobe because we sell it settle for it's fine. Yeah. The problem with it it's fine is that it's not fine and you're gonna be back shopping for that same items if you buy jeans and you got mine they're fine they're not fine and you're going to be back shopping for jeans in three months six months when you want that great pair of jeans so just commit to buy and good jeans in the first place.


Yeah. Oh absolutely yeah. I can't tell you how many times that I've been in a dressing room and in fact I was just the other day I was targeted of all places and I had about eight items in my dressing room I tried a couple of jeans a couple tops and I mean within two seconds of trying to pull on a pair of jeans I was like nope I can already tell I don't like the way the legs on this like you know the skinny jeans like some of them aren't I don't know they fit me weird about my ankles and I'm not even going to pull them all the way on because I don't like the way they fit.


And then I just move on and I I've been shopping with friends before where they take forever the dressing room and I'm like I'm in I'm out because either I love it or it's going back on the shelf. Yes. And that helped me even though like there are things in my closet obviously I don't love that I've either outgrown or that are just they don't have their shape anymore and they don't fit the way they did when I first got it. But for the most part I can go in my closet and most of my clothes.


I like the way they fit. Now I don't always you me I always have that why would you put on your like oh I'm just feeling kind of frumpy today it doesn't. I don't love the way it looks to me today. But then the next highway I'm like Oh this looks really good. So there is that but for the most part I try to live by that rule of if I don't love it it doesn't go to my closet.


I think that that is such an important thing and good job for you for doing that because when you commit to just buying things you only love then you end up with a wardrobe you love. Funny how that happens. Right. If you're writing things that you're apathetic about or keep things that you don't like then you end up with a wardrobe that you're apathetic about or don't like. So it is really kind of the first step. That first commitment is trying everything on and if you don't love it simply don't buy it.


Yeah it's pretty. I mean that's kind of an easy one.


It's simple. It sounds almost too simple. You we like if they feel like it has to be difficult it's not difficult.


You just know it's not it's not. And you know I really encourage women go through that that drawer of pajamas and lounge where refill it with stuff that you like. Mm hmm. Really stylish women aren't laying around in frumpy T-shirts and holy yoga pants that don't make them feel good. Start with cute pajamas whatever that means to you. If you're somebody who likes like the little sets that button up in the monogram. Not me but by those right. If you're somebody who loves you know comfy pants with wine glasses on him and Cute shirts.


Totally me by those but when you start when you start every day and end every day in clothes that make you feel good. It just it totally changes your perspective and I always tell women when I'm talking about like teenagers and tweens and self-image and all of this stuff and they say can I just let her wear what she wants. I always say it's easier to like the way you look when you look the way you like. Does that make sense. Yes. So when you start when you start just by putting things on that you like and you look in the mirror you're like I like this.


It is easier to like the way you look. And that I think applies to my 11 year old daughter as much as it does to my clients who are in their 50s and 60s and still struggling to like the way they look. Start with just looking the way you like. Whatever that means to you. Yeah. Don't settle for it. It's fine. It doesn't matter. Stop buying the utilitarian grey sweater because it'll go with everything. Buy that crazy color that you love. Yeah that's how you build a word of that that you truly love.


When I started trying to do this with my eyes I've got two daughters and my oldest daughter dresses herself and now she wants to dress the younger one and shoot my oldest when Brown leaves her. She has always loved dressing herself and she used to go in her closet and she would lay out what she called her design and it would be like the pants and the shirt and the shoes and she'd accessorize and shoes to have like a little like clay hair set with like a hairdryer and a straightener and she'd like lay the hairdryer next to the little person on the floor.


But she has always had really great style. I never taught her how to dress herself. I never really went and we haven't done any like. We all go shopping together and we'll pick up things that we like you know. But she has this natural way of putting together an outfit that that's her style that's completely all her and it looks adorable and her initially been like roll the jeans up a little bit at the bottom so she can wear her little booties with it. And she'll like put on a little sweater over it.


You know I'm like it's all her and there's been some time she'll come out like maybe we don't wear the purple heart pants with the Red Star shirt like let's maybe try something else. But 90 percent of the time she knocked it out of the park and I'm like I don't ever want to squash that I'm hurt because I feel like her personality is coming out in her clothes. She even if it's something that's bad maybe not what I would put together in her closet.


She came out the other day with these little jeans with butterflies on them and she had like a kind of a glittery everything's glittery for girls but it's kind of glittery pink top and again it wasn't what I would have put together but I could tell she was really proud of what she wore and I was like you Rocket Girl You can go to school and you rocket because that's more important that you feel confident than what I think about your outfit.


Without a doubt I I wholeheartedly agree with you. I take it one step further and when they come down in the purple pants with the hearts and the glittery and everything. I love your outfit today and they go to school and the older one who's in middle school now. I mean like her her style is on point but you know going through those early years. It was crazy. It was absolutely. My kids have always dressed like colorblind clowns look and I just embrace it. They go to school and it's not like their teacher goes oh my gosh.


Her mom's a wardrobe stylist I can't really know. They know they dress themselves. I know they know and I grew up a child of the 70s and 80s and I look back and I said to my mom and I'm like how on earth did you let us out of the house like that. Like what were you thinking. And she said yes. And this is like everyone should stop and write this down and it's wisdom from Sonia Mackie who said well you thought you look great. Who was I to say different.


Right. Wow that's That's amazing.


I mean that's impactful and then we kind of talked about it a little bit more and she said that's how you find your style. How would you like to wear. But I just think that's simple. Well you thought you look great. Who am I to say different. And in our house we have I have one rule and it's that the three B's must be covered bellies butts and boobies. I don't wanna see any of those. So that means for my daughter who is in middle school that we're not doing crop tops.


Yeah I don't see it. I really really don't want to see it. And you know if your shirts are too short and they're showing belly no if they're really low cut and you're like I'll throw came in. No I don't want to see that. So we come from the perspective of That's the rule. That's really the only rule. Beyond that you do you. I mean they have to figure it out on their own and I was I was doing a speaking engagement one day and I was kind of sitting with the women that I was going to be speaking to and we're joking and I was talking about my daughter dressing dressing like insane that day insane and we were laughing and one mom said oh not me if my daughter comes down and she looks whatever I don't remember the words she is.


I tell her to go right back upstairs and change. And I thought for a minute about this little girl who's one of her first impressions of the day is you don't look at enough yet OK. Now go to school and feel confident you know and there was one morning I was standing in my mirror in my bathroom doing my hair makeup whatever and my daughter came in and all I could see her and all I could say is wow that's an outfit like that's all I could say because it was an outfit. And she was five and she said to me I know sometimes I put things together that people don't think go together.


But then I look at myself and think I look amazing.


If only we could have the competence of a five year old right wearing mismatched outfit I mean that is that's my goal in life now is to have that confidence.


My goal in life is to make sure she doesn't lose that confidence and make sure that when she does I'm not the reason. Yes I'm not the reason and I think it's wonderful that your daughter was born with innate style knowledge of how to do these things. But what I've seen over time is that my older one is understanding proportion and proportion is more important to style than just about anything else. But now she'll you know she'll say OK does this shirt need a skinnier Jean. Or maybe I should try the craft like she's starting to see it.


Yeah. Absolutely no input from me. I just buy the stuff. That's all. That's the only input that I have from my daughter's wardrobe is I buy the stuff with the three parameter. That's it.


I like that three parameter. I'm gonna have to use that in my house because I mean they're seven and three now. But as she gets older I'm like I'm much remember that.


Like today she walked out with some really cute little skinny jeans kind of like tight rolled off the bottom basically and these little Converse shoes that have like this roughly thing on them and the top she had on match the purple and the converse is she was so proud of herself for this little out that you know and it just makes me so like that's my ultimate goal because I struggled so much with confidence growing up and I wish I had had someone like you when I was younger to come through and tell me like how to dress for my body type or how to wear things that make me feel good because I think that that's where it starts is like with your middle school daughter and you know girls who are growing up and keeping that confidence of you look amazing because you put it together it's your creation and it's what you feel good in and who cares what anybody else thinks because you're gonna go to school people who feel amazing wearing dresses and you're gonna go school.


People who feel amazing wearing T-shirts and you know athletic pants whatever it is and it doesn't matter as long as you feel confident and you feel confident saying this is what I'm wearing. And like it or not this is this is me.


And so I just you know I just want to keep that in my girls and I want to instill that and other other women so that they have that same confidence every single day.


And yeah. And I think for my daughters I really try not to focus on their body types. My older one has a body type just like me which is bigger on bottom than than you are on the bigger on top than you are on the bottom. It is a difficult body type to dress.


It is not super conducive to a lot of the styles that are out there right now and I am having to sort of stunt myself a little bit like oh that's not that's not flattering. What does flattering mean. Yeah. You know what does that. What does that mean. Right now she's in a phase where she just likes the clothes that she's wearing. And OK for now that is totally fine and when she wants to dress a little bit differently. She's got a mom that has a ton of knowledge about it.


But I really what we say to our daughters really matters really matters. And it's funny I'll talk to the clients sometimes when I'm having a challenging shopping trip unless they you know did you and your mom shop together and just sort of start to pull out these things and I hear a lot of Oh my mom said I couldn't wear skinny jeans or my mom said I couldn't wear that. So my mom said I should wear this for my broad shoulders or whatever it is. And those messages are so damaging. Yeah because all of a sudden they think they have to dress a certain way or that their body is wrong and you know I love my mother and she is a.


She is a guru and full of wisdom. But she did always instill in me this idea that my body type needed to be dressed specially or Oh that neckline. Let's try this neckline and it was always it always made me feel a little bit bad. And granted she has the same body shape that I have so she knows how to dress that body. And looking back like she was said oh Raglan sleeves Raglan sleeves are the best on you hearing I'm 45 years old and I just swoon over every Raglan sleeve sweater I find because it is best for me.


So she not new but we just have to be really careful to couch these messages of this is how you should dress your body because they don't I don't think little girls need to know that at this point. No no. I think that that is I had a woman by me and by her daughter obsession with me and her daughter was 17 and a 17 or 18 and her daughter. We went shopping she had no idea why she was on a shopping trip. Her mom e-mailed me and she said I want her to learn how to dress her body.


And we went to American Eagle and this girl 17 18 years old she wants to wear what her friends are wearing her most important and she put on these shorts and you know do short shorts on an extreme pear shaped body look the most traditionally flattering I would say no but I said How do you feel I know she's like these I feel amazing in these. These are the best shorts I've ever tried on. And then I remember that she sent me a nasty nasty e-mail about how did you let her buy those things.


And I said well she loved him. She felt great. That's my goal in life like to help a woman feel great. Now it's not to only help her by the shorts that are perfect for her. No it is at the end of the day. Do you feel great in what you're wearing because when you do women are unstoppable when we feel great about ourselves absolutely unstoppable.


It's so true. Oh my gosh. Their husbands. I could talk to you for hours like this has been so amazing.


Thank you so much for sharing all of your expertise and wisdom and insightful ideas. So where can people find you. How can they follow you. Tell us what your podcasts and of course lingo all these the show notes.


But go ahead tell us what they can do in touch with you so you can find me on Facebook and Instagram. That's where I hang out the most. Both of those are everyday style with Jen if you really want to hang out with me. Come to my Facebook group which is the everyday style lounge you can just search that on Facebook. I'm in there quite a bit. My Web site is your everyday style dot com. You can get to the podcast from there from to the Facebook group. You can get everything and then also we're going to put a link in the show notes for your listeners to grab my free mini capsule wardrobe guide.


Right. So yes it is. It shows you how to make 30 days worth of outfits out of just 10 pieces. So if you want to pare down your wardrobe have that perfect effortlessly stylish mix and match wardrobe that every woman always wants. I'm going to give it to you for free. So just that undermines there to your website. Grab it.


Yay. Well thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I would love to have you back on another time we can dive a little deeper into all the amazing wisdom that you have because again I feel like we just kind of scratched the surface.


Oh I would love to have you back again.


Yes. It's been such a fun conversation and I'm happy to come back anytime.


Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. A huge thank you again to Jennifer. I just loved this interview. There were so many little bits of wisdom and things you could just pull out of that and run with in your own life in fact I was going back through looking for similar quotes to pull out and I had so many different clothes that I couldn't pick one to choose that I wanted to use for the episode quote. So there was just so much information as I know it was a longer episode but I think it was so worth it.


And I love that we delve into raising girls and what that means fashion wise and body image wise and all the things that come with that and that's such a huge part of what I am about. In this podcast is not just business it's motherhood and I'm raising two daughters and so it's not just about how I dress but it's about teaching them how to dress for themselves to feel good about themselves as well. And I will say that again after listening or after doing this interview with Jennifer I implemented a lot of things we talked about in my own life and so I did go shopping and I did find a couple of jeans that I really love how they fit and how they look and how I feel in them.


I've started ordering from Stitch Fix which I love and I will link to in the show notes if you want to try Stitch Fix. You can. If you haven't used it before. It's like a subscription service where you have a personal stylist that sends you outfits and you can do monthly or every other month or every couple months or just a few times here and there. And I've been so impressive had two boxes now and I've been so impressed with the things that I'm getting from them. It's things that I would never really go into a store and buy for myself.


But it's really cute things and so for example the other day I mentioned in this episode that I do wear a lot of yoga pants and the other day I was like You know I love my yoga pants. So comfortable. And I had on a pair of little Capri ones that had a cute little to kind of cut out down the sides and I wanted to put a cute top with them and through Stitch Fix I had received this sort of plum purple three quarter sleeve kind of sensual aside and tied little top and it almost looked like a little athletic athleisure wear top.


And so I put it with my yoga pants and I put on some really cute little sneakers with them and it just looked really cute. It looked more put together than it would have if I had just thrown on a sweatshirt or a t shirt. And those are things that I normally would not have given much thought to. But after this conversation with Jennifer a lot of things that she mentioned have resonated with me and really stuck with me and I think about in the mornings when I go into my closet even if I'm just dropping my kids off at school and running errands all day I think about what am I putting on.


How do I want to feel today. What version. Like how do I want to represent myself today to the rest of the world. And so this interview has not only been an amazing interview just to do because she was incredible but it really has impacted my own personal life. And so I'm so excited to get this out there for you all to listen to because I'm excited to hear what your thoughts are on this episode. So head over to the girl means business Facebook group and let me know what your thoughts are.


Let me know what you loved about this episode if there were any little pieces that really jumped out at you that resonated with you personally. I want to know more about your thoughts on how we dress and how it affects our attitude our mood and the way we carry ourselves in different situations. And as always you can head over to today's show notes girl means business dot.com forward slash episode 43 and get all of Jennifer's links go check out her podcast Download your free wardrobe guide that she has for you and then go follow her on social media.


I think she's going to have some really inspiring stuff coming up for us to follow. So go check her out at today's show nuts. All right guys. That does it for today's episode. I hope you have a wonderful week. I will see you back here next week same time same place.


If you love today's episode don't forget to click the subscribe button so you never miss when a new episode goes live. Then head over to iTunes and leave a quick review to let the people know just how much you loved it. Thanks ladies. See you next week.



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