The Enneagram and Your Business with Barbie Clarke

Hey guys. Welcome back to another week here on the girl Means Business podcast. Couple things really quick one if the audio sounds a little wonky today I apologize. My microphone just died on me this week. Every time I plug it into my computer it tells me that it's using too much power all of a sudden so I don't know what's going on. I'm currently just recording with my handy dandy trusty iPhone headphones. So again I apologize if the audio on this intro is a little bit not up to par but I think it's going to all be worthwhile because today's episode is a really really exciting one.


 If you have listened to the show you've probably heard me talk a little bit about my slight obsession with this thing called the enneagram and unless you've been living under a rock you've probably had friends or family or someone you know talked about there enneagram number and if you're not familiar with it I'll give you a quick little overview. The enneagram is a personality test but in my opinion it goes a little deeper than a personality test because it encompasses so much more than just your personality. You know when I was teaching full time we would do these you know team building exercises and these professional development days and a lot of times they would have us do personality types.


 Either it was through our IQ and think of the names. But there's been ones I've done where it was like Are you a lion or are you a tiger or are you a bear. I don't know what the hell are but you know you have the ones are like you you're an NSF J K P L O R I don't know but does a lot of times are geared towards just certain aspects of your personality whereas I feel like personally that any a gram was the first test I'm taken that truly encapsulated who I am.


The Good The Bad The Ugly and it wasn't so much a these are your strengths and weaknesses. It was more like this is why you are the way you are. This is why you feel the things you feel. This is why you are thinking the way you think. And I remember being on an airplane I was flying from Nashville to Denver and I listened to a podcast with Annie Downs where she was interviewing other any Graham type sevens which is what I am. I'm a seven. Technically I think it's called The Entertainer and the first time I heard this interview.


 I remember being on an airplane. I can tell you everything about what was going on around me because I was so just amazed at how much this interview and this episode of the podcast I listened to described me in a way that had never been described before. It was this strange feeling of someone understands me someone gets me Someone sees things in me that I didn't even realize were true. And for example one of the things that I realized was that as a 7 I run away from difficult emotions like it's the plague.


 I can't stand it.


I am terrible if you need somebody to go to a hospital or a funeral with you. I am not the girl to call because I am awkward. I'm uncomfortable. It's the worst thing for me. But if you need somebody that is going to be upbeat and fun and bring the life of the party then I'm the girl to call and for the longest time I didn't understand why that was.


I just thought that I don't know what I thought. Honestly I just knew that I hated uncomfortable situations. I hated moments where I didn't know what to say. I didn't know exactly what I'm supposed to be feeling and I just can't stand being in situations where it's sad and upsetting. My first go to is to make jokes or turn to a happier topic because I don't like difficult emotions and when I first heard her talk about that as being part of a Seven's personality it just clicked. I was like oh my gosh that is what I've done my entire life.


 And I had no idea that I was doing it for these reasons. Another example is Seven's have a serious faux MO which is 1000 percent me. A perfect example is my husband I were at dinner one night and I'd been scrolling through Facebook in the car on the way to dinner and I saw that someone I knew wasn't even a close friend just kind of a Facebook acquaintance that she and her daughter had gone to a Jonas Brothers concert the night before. And here in Dallas and I were looking at that photo and the caption I was like Oh that's so fun for them though it's a Jonas Brothers concert.


 Am I a Jonas Brothers fan. Yeah. Am I obsessed. No. What I have probably spent hundred dollars on tickets. No not at all. Probably not but was I jealous that I didn't get to go to that concert. Absolutely because as a 7 I am I hate missing out on things. I hate feeling like that there's something happening that I'm not part of. And the more I realize that about myself the more I'm able to kind of regulated a little bit and understand why I feel the way I feel and what other people don't always understand why I feel the way I feel.


 So anyway long story short today on the show we have an any. Graham expert I am so excited about this interview. I had the best time talking with Barbie. She is so much fun and a blast and has such insight into the area. GRAHAM And I think it's would be really interesting to hear even if you don't know your angiogram. No I do suggest that you go and take the test and figure out what number you are because it's just it's interesting to know and it's also really interesting to know what other people in your life are you know and I has my husband I first got married we did a whole leveling wages assessment and we found out you know my love language is gifts and words of affirmation that my husband's is acts of service and physical touch.


 Two very different gifts. And so knowing then about each other was a huge help in us understanding how to communicate and how to show our affection for one another. And I think of the Enid Graham in the same way. Knowing what my number is and knowing what other people around me is number is helps me to better understand them and interact with them and not get upset about certain things or choose my battles a little bit more. And so within your business knowing you're any Graham type is a huge part of understanding how you run your business how you interact with potential clients how you associate with other people and that's a huge part of business.


 So I think that it definitely pertains to not only your personal life but your business life which we'll get into in this interview. I know I'm kind of rambling on I'm just so excited so I won't have you wait any longer.


Here is my interview with our any and Graham expert Hi Barbie welcome to the girl means business podcast. I am super excited talk to you today. How are you. I'm great. Thanks for having me. Thank you all. All right. So to get started I want you to share a little bit about your story. Who you are what you do and how you got into what it is that you do now.


All right. So I won't bore you with the details it's a long very drawn out story of getting here to there but the long and short of it was it's always been on my heart to be a counselor.


But getting there and education and all those things. It's a long road. And so is trying to think of what can I do that plays to my strengths. Of listening to people and helping them through tough situations without having that you know the credentials behind it. But still something that's going to help me build towards that. And so something that's going to play to those strengths.


And after going through kind of a rough breakup and just asking a lot of questions of myself and I've gotten and am I on the right path and all those things I kind of discovered that the you Graham and the heat of that and was like oh my gosh this is an amazing tool. And then when I discovered that you could be a coach and you could teach other people about their personalities and how it just affects their world in general. That was like I was like immediately. That's what I want to do.


 That's what's going to help me speak to people and counsel people without the the technical counselling of counsel like so. So yeah that's. That was what originally turned me on to it.


I love that. It's so fun. I love those like aha moments when you kind of figure out like your what your passion and what you want to do kind of collide. That's so awesome. So for anyone listening who has been living under a rock and doesn't know what the Amy Graham is can you give us sort of a quick little brief overview of what exactly that any agreement is.


Sure. Sure absolutely. So yeah it is very confusing and is very in-depth. But the long and short of it is that's an in-depth personality tests and communication tool. Basically it takes you through the different characteristics if your personality.


Good and bad and there are sort of three general tracks that people are on there either healthy in their live in their best life survive and driving they're somewhere in between they're on autopilot maybe they're not being challenged or you know not being pushed in the direction they need to go or they're unhealthy and they're living out those those negative characteristics. So the angiogram is kind of walking through how you can become healthier and how you can kind of change a negative narrative in your life and make it a positive one.


That's awesome. So I first heard about the 80 gram through a friend I think someone posted about it on social media and I was like OK I've done all kinds of personality tests from when I was a teacher. We had to do them as part of staff development and then I've done them in some of the mentoring class or groups that I've been in and I've always loved the idea of personality tests and kind of knowing like what makes you work. Because I think that's so interesting it's really intriguing and I actually at one point I wanted to be a counselor as well.


 I wanted to be a school counselor because I love helping people and talking to people and so I think we kind of have that similar thread of these types of things are really really intriguing and I'm always trying to find new ways to understand myself better and understand like what makes me tech and why I do the things I do or why anyone does the things that they do. And so I'd heard about it. I think I took an online test at one point like what are the free ones. And I was like OK.


 It gave me a number and I was like I don't know what this means I'll have time to figure it out so I just kind of let it go. And then over the past like six months I just kept hearing people talk about it and they kept saying like oh well this person's of this is this person's of that and I was like OK I need to really figure out what I am. And so I took the test again and I'm 100 percent a seven. And I said yes I listen to a podcast episode because I was like I don't have time to read through everything about a 7 so I need somebody like give me the high points.


 So I listen to a podcast that my niece told me about and I was on a flight from Nashville to Denver and so I had time I listened to it and it was the first time that I felt like somebody was explaining me so perfectly that I was like How is this possible. But one hundred and twenty percent who I am the good the bad everything. And I was like okay I'm obsessed. I want to know what everybody in my life is I want to know like what makes them tick how we work together.


 I just became like addicted to the Instagram so I'm super super excited to dive in a little more with you today and talk about just what it is how it works and how it can help people listening either in their personal life their professional life and their relationships.


Yeah absolutely. And it was as the same way I was like You know I think for me and a friend. Friend was telling me about it and she was just kind of like yeah. I've heard about this we should take it and we we took some like crappy online test but by some random person and we are like a basically kind of took you through like all the negatives of your personality.


So like our first our first taste of it was like Man this makes me feel like horrible about myself like this like the worst.


So we kind of disregard it like That's stupid whatever. But but now like I I'm the same way. I'm such a nerd when it comes to personality tests and and understanding how people work and how they tick. And so I was taking everything at this point of time on my own or through classes and I didn't really understand what made the a gram different run some like the NBC guy or strengths finder or any of the other ones until I kind of started to learn more about what they call the shadow side.


 Just like the negative parts of your personality. But the real beauty in that. And it's not to make you feel crappy or guilty or whatever. The real beauty in that to me is you know I don't know what to but I kind of always had this assumption that there is always some personality type that was like a unicorn and they were just like out there killing it.


They're like the CEO of a company like they're just very bold and brassy and they like never have any vulnerabilities or fears or or whatever about starting a business or about like networking or about any of these things just kind of boldly go out there and like don't ever look back. And so like learning more and more about each type like show me that that was so untrue like. And but in the best possible way it's like oh wait and we're all in this human like we all have something that's hard for us and we might not go around like flying that freak flag but there's still some you know some secret things that are hard.


 And so just gave me so much more empathy and compassion and and tried to help me see everyone through a different lens instead of saying oh man is so great and I wish they were like them but I'm not and you know this sucks and they kind of sad because I'm jealous of them and whatever.


Yeah no I it's been interesting because so right after I listened to that I actually was right before.


This is how I kind of get into that podcast that my niece told me about. We'd been on a girls trip to Nashville and there was about six of us. Yeah. And we were it was my sister in law my niece. They're best friends and a couple other people and throughout the whole begin they kind of kept referring different people buy there any. GRAHAM No. And it was funny because the person who had planned the trip was a two. And so we kept expecting her to make plans and we're like Wait why are we asking her to make plans she can't make a decision and she's trying to please everybody and it's not going to work.


 You know and so it was just money to see how knowing someone's instagram number and knowing a little bit about who they are as a person. It helped us to kind of look at and go Oh cable. Clearly we need to have somebody else in charge of deciding where we're gonna go eat because this person is not going to be able do it. And yeah it was just I think when it comes to relationships even like with my husband and he's so and time all this kind of stuff that I made him take a test just to see that I felt like I knew what number he was like I want to know for sure.


 And so I made him take it. And of course he was an eight. Like I thought. And I was like OK now I'm starting to see a little more about your personality and what makes you tick and you know how I can talk to you in a different way or how to expect things from you. It's yeah it's just it's really fun.


I love it yeah. That's so true. And lastly because I did the same thing with my family like my family and I love them. I'm very much like and like an ideas person I like to talk about like the big picture or like a concept. I just kind of like to live my life and you relate to this as well as a 7. Like I like to just get excited about things and not talk about the practical side just like wouldn't it be cool if you know clouds or made of marshmallows you know whatever I like yeah.


Oh that's right.


And so like I said I just geek out real hard about this stuff and like you know I my they're like all about it. And like I don't care if you want to talk when I'm not like we're going to talk about it or I'm just just interested.


And so when I discover the union grant it was like that exactly like my family my friends I was like chasing them down like you have to take this chance I know what you are like so we can relate better to each other and you know like we can see like those dynamics play out because you know that was my thing. Like the analytical side of me was like Well I have to know what my mom and dad are because those are like my primary influences you know growing up and and they flavor things as well and sounds like I have to know what our family dynamic was in order to understand me so that I can understand how I relate to other people on bubble but.


So yeah. And that's like the number one thing that I do it's like type people will pass by.


So will be oh yeah.


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 Back to our amazing interview.


OK so to back up a little bit for people listening who are still continue to this whole new great idea can you walk us through so the Ingram has nine numbers. Can you walk us through a little bit about what each number. Just a real brief overview of what they are and some of the personality traits of those numbers.


Sure so I'll I'll try my best to to wrap that each type. So each one kind of has like a little nickname. So number one their nickname is perfectionist. And so he kind is you think of this person is like your type a very organized very detail oriented.


I compare it to like Monica Geller from friends. Yeah look I was your type one verse now.


Yeah. So like that's kind of like this stereotype. But you know for those listening you think they might be a type women and they're like but like I'm not really clean. Like that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.


It's more about like morality and if you're very much like a rule follower. So like the example that I use it's sort of a silly example it's very general but like my mom she said to me one but that one is real strong. And if there is a rule that she will follow it to a T. Like it doesn't matter if it makes sense or whatever. There is a rule she's going to follow it. So like a good example would be my um my cousin my cousin's husband who is a 2 and made her he like pirated a copy of some movie she said that she really wanted to see.


I'm going to get a chance to and my mom was horrified. Like you pirate a minute. It's a legal that's breaking the rules. I feel bad having this in my house. You know we're I'm not going to come knocking down our door because we have a pirated movie but yes that would be Type 1 type 2 is sort of the whoever you would think of in your circle who's just the sweet heart just a soft hearted person typically very sensitive to others feelings.


One of the ways that that Beth McCord describes this person is they kind of have like these sounds odd but they have these feelings tentacles and in other words they can walk into a room or party or whatever and they automatically know the climate. Everyone's emotional state. They can tell the person who's not joining in a conversation because they feel uncomfortable. They can tell the person who is having a really rough day like they're very sensitive to others and that can be an amazing superpower an asset and it can also be really rough because they become like sponges with those things they absorb other people's emotions.


 So if you have a fight with your spouse or your friend you take that on the rest of the day.


And it's hard to leave at home. Let's see a type 3. There are achievers in our performers so they like to be in the spotlight. They like to lead. They like to achieve their very goal oriented. Those are our CEOs and our in our lives. My sisters and I read. And you know they're awesome. They're very they're they're very goal oriented and very motivated and they can help other people be motivated. The downside to that is sometimes they can kind of wrapped up in that hamster wheel and if they're not in a healthy spot then they can think well the only thing that makes me loved or valuable or important if I achieve this or if I get to this next goal or I start to make the salary their importance comes from the applause and not from you know just being who they are and who God created them to be number four which is my brother in law is the artist or the bohemian.


 This person is very comfortable in their emotions. They're very comfortable kind of processing the deeper wells of human emotion and like plumbing those debts they're very comfortable with all of those things. And so they're kind of viewing the world spread this emotional scope in this emotional range. Number five is going to link to all people.


No no no no.


By will be my dad. This person is very cerebral. They like to be the source that people go to for information. They're very their eyes are steady rock. That's the person who they're always kind of quietly working behind the scenes and making sure that everything is running smoothly. And it's easy.


And so much as I hate to say it can be easy to take them for granted but boy howdy when they step out of the picture like everything like crap hits the fan and you know like your fire has left the building they were making it run smoothly this whole time but they weren't asking for credit.


And I will say I think when I husband took the test I want to say he was actually maybe a five wing eight are either aiming for I can't remember but I know he had those two were his strongest.


But I feel like he might be more of a five. So anyway continue. Yeah.


Yeah. See a six is. There are loyalists. They're good friends. The the the downside to a six would be that they worry a lot. They kind of live a lot in their brain. And worst case scenario. But they're also the people who like again there are bedrock sake they're loyal to the end. There are really good friends.




They're like are fine people They're nicknamed the entertainer and the kind of boy everybody up. They're very positive. And one of the things that that best McCord talks about with Sevens is that we kind of rely on them to to carry that group as far as morale goes. So and it's it's funny again talking about group dynamics. Like if you have a bunch of people over but like your typical seven is missing like that's very much felt. So you know my mom tells the story about they had this small group people come over and you know read read a book of the Bible or something and go through it together whatever.


 And so they kind of have homework each week. And she said they had kind of like their fun couples were out of town or something that week.


And so she said all all the people that came they were kind of more studious types that came in their homework was done and they did what they're supposed to do and it was great. And you know whatever and they'll show up on time. But she's like but it wasn't the same because we didn't have like our fun couple. Like it wasn't a party. Everyone was very studious. They did what they're supposed to do. But like it was not as fun as it was when like their seventh were there.


 So so yeah. And the eights are leaders and I com or Eminem. Because they are kind of crunchy or on the outside. They might have that hard sell on the outside but on the inside is a really deep heart for justice and a really deep heart for caring for people who can't care for themselves so they might kind of have this will tough exterior where people look at them they're like oh that person's kind of intimidating and like you have a real strong energy. But like really at the heart of everything they do they they want to protect people fiercely.


 So really they're there. There you go. I'll go on the inside you just have to keep tapping away but yeah. Yeah. That's that's all the time.


Did you take it nine. What about nine.


All right. I only forgot someone I was like about to go to 10 in the Senate tonight. Yeah. So nine. That's what I am. They're called the peacemakers. They're kind of similar to a two and that they're soft hearted.


The difference is with the two they're kind of constantly reaching out to see what people need while as nines are the ones who are stepping in to kind of smooth things over. So if there's a conflict or two people aren't getting along. They're the diplomat they're the person who's seeing each person side and saying hey this is where this person's coming from this is where this person's coming through on you to kiss and make up. So very much like it just makes sense. When I was reading my type I was like Well no wonder I want to be a counselor like the you know all the suggestions were like things like social worker counseling or you know whatever.


 So it just it is this makes a lot of sense like of course. Like seeing other people's perspective. It's it's a gift and a curse at the same time because also makes Knights very indecisive because they're like well you don't want to cause this person to be upset. And also I see this person's perspective but also I agree with this other person.


So yeah no I I think the things that I loved most about the Instagram because like you said compared to other personality types or personality test a lot of times it just sort of gives you like these are your strengths and well like strict minders it tells you like these are things that you're strong in. But for some reason always seems to make the negatives sound so negative or so you know just don't know like it just seems like there's all the tests I've taken the pass have kind of made things seem like that.


 This is the bad side of you whereas the any engram it wasn't so much that way. It was more like Hey these are the things that you are kind of known for. And then there's also these things the side of you that maybe isn't necessarily your best trait but it has its own purpose. And so I liked the way it kind of balance that out. Kind of for mean with sevens one of the biggest things is they have like real hard time with like thermo which it's made perfectly like I was telling my husband when it was explain this to us.


 You know I say I saw someone post on Facebook even just a casual acquaintance someone that I knew from years ago when I was teaching and they'd posted about going to some concert.


It wasn't even a concert for anybody I cared to see but I still was like man that's looks like it would have been so much fun.


I wish I could've gone to that and he's like no he's like you don't even look like that type of music. I'm like I know but it's just an experience I missed out on.


And so I think it's really interesting to see you know kind of the oh heard you say good and bad but like the positive side of your personality. And then also sort of the more negative side of your personality but that is not necessarily a negative if that makes sense.


I like to describe it this way and this is before I even knew anything about any and Graham but like my mom was a teacher for many years for kindergarten.


God bless her.


But yeah it's like she is talking about kids in her classroom too. You know we need to talk to the parents about ways they've been acting out or whatever. Which is a brief conversation like that that's hard to sit down with mama bear and papa bear and tell them like hey I need to do know some things but still be honest and not sugarcoat it was just talking about your talking about how to deliver you know the criticism in a way that's both honest but isn't like how you doing. You know what I mean because like you never want to let someone down or make them feel like this isn't fixable or this is you know just like tragic thing or whatever.


 And so it's like you know what it's like this like every single characteristic even has amazing characteristic. Like being really compassionate. Right. Like that's my my favorite example of a friend who is just extremely compassionate like always she's the best in people and that's an amazing trait like nothing in me would want to say like hey go check that in the bin. Absolutely keep that. But also keep in mind that with that on the other side of the coin there's always a possibility that if you're not careful people can take advantage of that and you can become overworked or you can become taken advantage of because there are people who want to take that and use that for their you know their own desire whatever that may be.


 So it's not about saying OK your personality sucks so go you know put it in the trash can it's just saying hey have some awareness that this is a superpower. It really is. I don't use that term to be cute like it's. It really is your superpower like own it. But at the same time have some awareness of where it could go when you're healthy and then work on that. It's not about saying oh well Well I'm really bad at this and it's awful and whatever. It's there that knowledge is there so that you can work on it and become better.


 Like it's very much a practical tool that you can change. Like you have every capability to change and to work on. So to me it's it's really empowering. But you just have to explain it in such a way that people get like you are both you are 100 percent like you make mistakes like any human being will and know has the potential too but also you have this amazing potential to live into those incredible qualities that you have just got to know what they are you know anything.


Yeah absolutely. When I think some people too like they hear you know personality test or the here in Ingram they think well how can something define me like how can it put me in a box.


Because like again I use example of me being a 7. There's personality aspects to me that fit a 7 to a T. But there's other things from other numbers I feel like or partly b to and so I think some people are hesitant to label themselves a certain personality type or an anagram number. And so what do you say to people who are like well that's all good and great. But some online tests can't tell me everything I need to know about me. Yeah. Oh I have so much to say.


I have so much to say at present.


I have heard that several times and here's the thing I'll try to be brief and not like to carry it off without it. But here's the thing. Again kind of delving into my more like analytic side.


Like I'm I'm a super touchy feely person but also switching over to that like a local mind like as much as it would be ridiculous for me to claim that a man made personality tests can tell me everything that I will ever need to know about you. Right. That would be crazy. Like I don't know what you eat for breakfast this morning. I don't know what kind of clothes you like to wear what dirty ice cream flavor. Like all of those things as much as it would be ridiculous to claim that this just covers all the ground of a human being because that would be impossible.


 It's just as ridiculous and crazy to say that while no one can define me because you know I'm so special and so unique that even though I share space with a billion other people on the planet like there are no commonalities between me and someone else right. So I wouldn't say this is how I would describe it like it in two parts. The any a gram is a spiderweb it's helping you connect dots it's helping you connect one thing to the other and showing you kind of the next step in front of you or why you do what you do.


 It's not a blanket it's not meant to cover every single detail an aspect of your life that would be impossible and crazy if could do that then anyone working in any ground would be making like millions of dollars.


You can predict the weather or you know the stock market and write it all down which would be super cool but it doesn't do that.


Also I would describe it it's it's a G.P.S. System. When I turn my G.P.S. on to go to whatever location I don't close my eyes and let it drive the car for me. You know what I mean. I still have to have my senses about me. I'm still making my own decisions and still deciding whether I want to take the G.P.S. is route or not but I am taking it into account right. So I would just say it's a tool. Like anything else it's a tool and you can decide how much stock you want to give it or not.


I love that I love the G.P.S. example because that's so true and yet like there's so there's one aspect of like sevens that I kind of looked at and that same idea which is that I guess sevens don't don't love feeling the hard emotions like me. We tend to gloss over those or use humor to come around them. And that's definitely exactly what I do. But I've never really looked at it in that way. I've always just looked at it as I don't know. That was just kind of me or how I was raised I guess.


 And once I was able to understand that and look at it as not something that is wrong with me but it's something that I need to work on and something that now that I'm aware of I can address and I can kind of look at it from different angles. It definitely has helped me become more aware of situations where I might be pushing those feelings aside and address them a little bit more. So I love that. Again it's not necessarily the end all be all but it's just a guided system like you said with the G.P.S. example.


 That's really really awesome.


Oh yeah for sure. I'd like one of the things too and I totally get it to me because like I I love talking and diving deep into like other people's feelings but like if someone wants to talk to me like in the heat of the moment about like thanks again and I'm going to do a conflict or anger which is like a emotion that I like so so deeply suppressed like I don't want to talk about that. That's gross. Like let's do anything but that right. Yes. So yes.


So like I mean I totally get what you mean but yeah it's just it's so helpful to know where to start with that. So there's this quote I don't know who said it but I think about it all the time and it's the truth will set you free but first it will piss you off.


I love that. Oh my God. So. True. Right. It is. Yeah. So like when you read.


So when I first read about my personality one of the characteristics of the nine is that because they see all these different people's perspective it makes them indecisive and b they're really hard to type on the immigrant because they're like well I see I see the perspective of the Jews and maybe in the. But also make this a bubble. So I'm still at it and I actually did that but once I read the core fears of the nine as well as the negative characteristics that's when I knew because I mean that was not.


 I was like that like I'm mad that that's true. Like I can't deny that it's true but I'm mad that it's true. And that's I knew that that was accurate because it wasn't just telling me a bunch of B.S. that I wanted to hear. Right. Like it was like yes for the positives but also the negatives.


Yeah. OK.


So now that you kind of covered what the nine numbers are and what their personality traits kind of skimmed on those. Let's talk a little about how knowing your Instagram number knowing that Instagram number of other people can help you better your relationships. And of course obviously tying it in to like business how it can help you and I know this a lot of people can say business they talked about like employees like if you have employees clearly you'd be nice to know their personality type but I know a lot of cool listening are solo producers they're doing this on their own.


 But even just within working with clients working with other entrepreneurs working with other people in their industry how can knowing your immigrant type and knowing even a little bit about bears help you in those areas.


Yeah absolutely. So and I certainly have kind of gotten this question I feel like people are kind of generally in two camps they're either kind of in our camp where they're like oh my gosh I just like I love knowing about myself I love knowing about other people you know and they're more than willing to kind of dive deep into you know what what does it look like. What am I what is this percent or they're. In the other box and they're like well that's all good and grand that you're six or twelve or whatever you know I share ionosphere or whatever but like what on earth does that have to do with the brass tacks practical day to day every everyday things of relationships or business or whatever.


 And what I would say to that is do you talk to people on a daily basis you know do you do you interact with your customers do you interact with clients do you interact with the barista Starbucks do you interact with your family maybe then you need this talk.


Yes exactly yes.


Because it might seem trivial or some people might even like characterize as like narcissistic or why would you need to know that much about yourself or whatever. But I think it definitely starts with you. But eventually to it it carries you on to other people it carries you unto the dynamic that you have. I have this book in front of me and although it's on an Instagram book there are similarities in that they talk about. I talk about people's motivations and how to motivate people.


So if you are in a business where you have employees or your you know maybe a social entrepreneur who's trying to team up with another business or trying to clients or whatever and it goes through a lot of people's motivations very similar to that in your grant. I've really found it helpful it's called dealing with people you can't stand oh my gosh I love that title.


Yeah it's really awesome. And it's by Dr. Rick Brinkman and Dr. Rick personally I hope I'm seeing that right. But what I really loved about it is it's just it's very I'm so whose his imagination is captured quickly like if you give me a lot of detail like I'm Marty I've tuned you out. And so this book is like super get down to brass tacks. This is what it is. Big picture you know. So it is it is more general. So for those of you who like or are wanting like a detailed and deep dive explanation maybe this isn't the book for you.


 But I found it really helpful in that it talks about just kind of hey if you're working with this person and you're thinking gosh what can I do to get through it. And I just don't seem to be communicating with them very well or really really want to motivate my client.


I really really want to motivate the person I'm working with to do this kind of work. If you are a task oriented person and you're coming at things from the lens of more people will be motivated by accomplishing. Because we see things typically how we are right. So world you are coming from those are the tinted glasses we're wearing and we think we assume that everybody else is like us and they're going to be motivated by accomplishing things. So you've come to your client or it comes to whoever and you say this thing is so great and you should get it or we should work on this thing together because we could achieve so much and that person actually is motivated by relationship.


 Then there's a disconnect. You've lost them. If you come to them and you say I would so love to partner with you because I just think you're really great. I think your story and the heart behind your business is really awesome. And when it gets know more about you. Well guess what. You won that person over right. Oh yeah like a classic example is my brother who's also a 7 and it's just really super motivated person like has a bunch of different interests and everything that he pursues he goes that hard right.


 Like he practice the guitar until he knew it inside and out like he wanted to become a Marine and so he trained until he was 21 to become a fireman. So he trained until he was like you know everything he does he does hard. So to an extent like he is very much you know task oriented right and he wants to get things done. I'm very relational. So one morning he asked me to go running with him. I am not a runner I will never be a runner.


As much as I would love to to lie to people and say that I'm the kind of person who gets up at 6am and loves to go for a run. That's such a lie. So so yeah. So he was like come running with me. He's literally like jogging circles around me and going so slow and he's just like you know I'm just complaining so I'm like sweating and tired and uncomfortable and he's just bragging about how much faster he's going whatever. And he's like well why did you why did you come with me if you don't like to run like I thought we were gonna like go you know achieve this run.


 Right right. This task right.


And I'm like well because I wanted to spend time with you you know just because people are doing the same thing doesn't mean they're doing it for the same reason. Yeah. So when you figure out someone's motivation and what makes them tick in that respect like you have their ear and their heart and their attention and then in a completely different way than if you went at it from solely your perspective bro you think they want to hear yeah oh my gosh that's so good.


So as you were talking it kind of reminded me before I'd ever heard about the Amy Graham one of the best tools I'd found and I really dislike to with my husband was the love languages that it was the idea that like my love language is completely different than his mind is like words information and gifts and his his acts of service. And once I figured that out and I realized that like he doesn't need me to buy him these expensive gifts or any gifts at all like he wants me to help with the dishes and he wants me to fix him a meal or he wants me to like be with him because when it's either actual service or like loans like timeliness and quality time.


 And so even little things like putting their phones down and just watching a show together with zero distractions that meant more to him whereas it didn't always mean something to me. But knowing that about him allowed me to shift how I was trying to show him I loved him. And so the same thing that's kind of how I look at the integrity and what you're saying was that makes so much sense because yes you're talking to a client and you're talking about like you said the results oriented aspect when really they just want to know you know how is this going to help them better their relationships or how is this going to help them build a relationship with you or feel more connected to you than you need to know how to speak in that language.


 I think that's really really a huge key piece. And if you want this listen to the podcast and I think you mentioned this you listed this on the episode to all about your ideal client even adding in you know what. Any Graham type or they can help you know how to speak to your ideal client even better because if your ideal client is someone who is a nine and you know is the peacemaker and who doesn't want to ruffle feathers and who likes to kind of be there for everybody else then you need to be speaking to them in a way that's going to resonate with them.


Mm hmm. Yeah. And absolutely when I was listening to that podcast in particular I kept thinking about. And there are several examples that come to mind. But the main ones and so funny because I don't even like his movies. But Seth Rogen interview with Seth Rogen and he was talking about his in his directed a lot of movies and he was talking about his client base basically so to speak and he's like I don't have one. He's like I literally I don't make movies with someone else in line to us.


 I make movies that I would enjoy watching and that my friends would enjoy watching. And one of the things I feel like has kind of taken you know traditional business mindset by storm. Over and over again is that people like to feel like things are tailor made for them. I think that's why all of these sort of niche online businesses are so hot right now is because we're finally tapping into that that no one likes to feel like they are on a chain email a bunch of different businesses that are all saying the same thing to thousands of different people.


 And the effort Taylor Swift say this in an interview I heard the Dorfman brothers who made Stranger Things like they were like when they pitch stranger things people are like no one is going to like this because it's so niche like it's based in the 80s and this generation isn't from the 80s but it's about kids. But it's not a kids show it's horror. But it's also funny like they're like It's too weird and out there and people won't like it. And all of this niche things is what people left about it.


 Oh yeah. Because it wasn't for everyone because they weren't trying to catch everyone they are trying to catch their specific client because like like you had explained you know think if a specific person that you're reaching and then you're sure to catch that person.


And you know not a thousand nameless faceless people who maybe aren't that great of a match for your brand or for whatever it is that you're selling. Yeah no I.


Yeah. That's sort of that's interesting I. I love that show. My husband I watch it and so you know it's true like when the first time I heard of it I was like There's no way I'm gonna like this show. Same thing with like oh have you ever watched Game of Thrones.


But that's a very kind of nice show too and I was like There's no way I'm going to like this show. And but once I saw him I was like OK I am clearly the person that they were like The Stranger Things I mean I was raised in the 80s I was a kid the 80s look I resonate with those things and while I didn't literally love the worst part of it it's I hate scary movies and things like I know.


But I loved the show because it did have that balance you know.


And so the fact that they're stories like that all the time where someone pitches an idea and it gets shot down because then people think Oh there's no way nobody's going to love that. And it becomes this huge thing. I think that's because it's so specific. You know you can it nowadays that you can't have something that's this huge broad idea because the nobody's really going to know who it's for and they don't know it's for them then they're not going to be interested. Yeah. So yeah I think that's really smart and I love tying it back into the whole new grand idea.


 I think that's a really great way to help kind of narrow down your natures to know like Who exactly am I targeting I'm in my targeting those three type threes that are like the high achieving CEOs or do I want more of you know the the eight who I have to kind of dig a little deeper to really get past that hard outer shell and make that effort a little bit more knowing that I think make how you position your business and how you approach your clients that much easier to understand as opposed to being like well I want to appeal to the twos and the sixes and the guys just everywhere.


And yeah it gets to be way way too hard.


You can't. There's no possible way to do all of that.


It becomes too overwhelming. Oh yeah for sure. And it's like I mean it's like this. It's like there's kind of a great example. That's why I'm like dating. Like unless you you know want like nine husbands or whatever know you're not trying to make everybody happy.


Like not everyone is going to like what you like. Not everyone is going to laugh at the same jokes or like enjoy doing the same things and that's fine. It's not about trying to please everyone or trying to match up with everyone. It's about finding that one person who is is a good fit and it's a good match. And recognizing that not everyone will be and that's fine. That's not how it's supposed to be.


Know Yeah well oh my gosh it's so so good. OK. Is there anything else you want to share or talk about with the immigrant before we kind of wrap things up.


Oh yeah.


So I'll try to again try to you know you buy whatever you want to share you go for it.


Yeah absolutely. So the main thing that has kind of differentiated any here for me and there has been a lot of aspects that I really appreciate it. But like I've said before I want you to a lot of personalities you know love and hate different things about each of them. And my expertise would always have a special place in my heart. But what I love about you most is that it's just it's so incredibly practical. There's nothing about it that like I said this is like trying to sugarcoat people's personalities.


 And then on top of that I think when I again when you see those like positive and negative characteristics for me it's it's helped so much to see how much we just desperately need each other and how much we desperately need to communicate and and be communicated with. There's just no escaping that. Like no man is an island. We all need to feel loved and valuable and cherished. And I think the more that we understand each other the easier that is to do. So I really love any grant who's kind of giving me the opportunity to kind of skip past small talk.


 And where did you go to school and what you do for a living and all those things and just get to like brass tacks of like what are you afraid of what are you What do you love. You know I'm way more interested in that than I am in what you majored in and or you know the kind of person you were in high school. I'd rather yeah know that about you and and feel connected to someone through those means than through something superficial. So yeah it's just really giving me a really big appreciation for how much we need each other how much we all need connection and to feel loved.


 And then just to see like in each of these personalities is an aspect as a characteristic of the Creator who created us. And so you know if we dismiss someone and we say well that person just a weirdo they don't see things from my perspective. So therefore you know they don't get it or they're dumb or whatever. You know we spit we dismiss that characteristic of their creator and that's that's a shame. Like so it's kind of given me a newfound curiosity for life and for people. And so instead of coming at it from the end that that waiter waitresses really snapped at me I just can go OK.


 Monday going through today what might their personality be. Maybe someone said something to them that bounce off them the wrong way and it's just it's given me so much more empathy and curiosity for the world around me. So I think it's just it's made things really really magical.


As cheesy as that sounds you know I think that's awesome. I love that.


And I think you know I mean I.


There are days when like me I wish I had studied psychology in school or something because I I love like diving into just sort of what makes people tick in how people react to things and all that kind of stuff and so any time that someone shares a glimpse of like who they are on that deep level like you said. I don't care where you went to school. I don't care how many pets you have. That's all good. I want to know about you as a person and so you know I've started trying to share a little more of that like even on social media and Instagram and stuff and I talk about being a 7 and the downfalls of that and I I talked awhile back about how it was a struggle for me when I was missing out on this really big trip that some friends went on and how I struggled with that and I talk about just the fact that like as a 7 and being like the entertainer there are times that I don't want to be the one that's supposed to bring the fun to the party and those are the things that like I'm putting out there.


 I would I want to see people talk about that. I just had this conversation today. A friend of mine who has started up a little boutique and she's kind of fighting the whole idea of being on social media I'm like you need to let people see who you are because gone are the days where people go to Instagram and Facebook to see the pretty stuff they go there to make actual authentic connections with people. And I get excited when someone post something that says something about their lives that is not superficial if they're talking about a struggle they had.


 If they're talking about a part of their lives that has been difficult or exciting or you know what what is it that makes you get up every day and do what you do like. Those are the things that I want to see more of. And so if this any a gram helps people share that in a way that feels less intimidating like to know that hey I'm a six or seven or nine or two and I could put that out there and there's going to be other people who get that because they're also those things.


 I think that's such a great thing for people to have to know that OK I'm not alone in the fact that I feel this way. I feel this way and there's a whole other group people out there who feel this way because there's only you know nine members of the diagram. We all going to fit into one of those nine numbers. There's going to be a lot of other people who are similar to you. And so I would say if anything encouraging people like hey share more of that get on there take the test I'll link to see if you'll send me some links for tests people can take online I'll put them in the show notes and go take the test then share with us like What is your number and tell us a little bit about why you think that makes you who you are.


 Because we'll find people that can relate to that as well.


Yeah absolutely.


Awesome. Thank you so much for chatting to me I was so excited to talk to you I'm so glad that I came across your information and actually thank you to Summer for sharing your information because that's how I found you. So thank you. Summer.


Thanks. Yeah. So much for having the cause. Of course I love it. And so yes.


Well first off we go tell anybody where they can find you if they want to follow you or learn more about what you offer.


Yeah absolutely. So I offer coaching services for the any Graham. All the tests that you're going to take that are free are a condensed version of the tests that I would give you through my coaching. So yes the the the most in depth. And someone say most accurate it's going to be from any Graham Institute.


Everything else is going to be a condensed version that you can find me on Instagram. Good too big. Pick any Graham and you'll see me or you I'll I'll put my personal account on public again so that you can find the link to that as well. But or Bobby Barbie on Instagram. I have a Web site.


It is coming in the New Year.


Not quite set up yet but it will be by new year and you can find pricing and more info there as well.


Awesome. Yeah. And I'll have all that information in the show now so people can go and just click on it and check it out. Yeah. Well thank you so much for joining us. And we'll talk to you again soon. All right. Thanks.


Oh, it was so much fun. A huge huge thank you to Barbie for taking the time out of her day to chat with us. I truly loved learning so much about the anagram and all the different numbers and the qualities and how we can use it to help us personally and professionally. So I want to ask you a big favor. Will you head over to the girl means business Facebook group and then just request to join if you haven't already and then share with us your in your group. No, I want to know what number you are and how it affects you in your business or if this is all new to you just what you've learned from it.


 I think it's so interesting to hear the different personality types the different numbers and how we think differently and view the world differently. It's such an interesting conversation starter for me so please head over to the Facebook group. Share with us your number and anything insights you've learned from this episode or from any other in your Graham episodes you've heard and other podcasts. I'm always open to learning about new things and hearing more about the immigrants. All right ladies that does it for this week. I hope you have a wonderful fabulous week.


 And I will talk to you again next week same time same place. Bye guys.


If you love today's episode don't forget to click the subscribe button so you never miss when a new episode goes live. Then head over to iTunes and leave a quick review to let the people know just how much you loved it. Thanks ladies. See you next week.



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